Sen. William Brownsberger, right, questions Deputy Auditor Michael Leung-Tat, left, and other staff from Auditor Diana DiZoglio’s office Feb. 11. / Sam Doran photo
A panel of Senate Democrats met with senior staff from Auditor Diana DiZoglio’s office for about 90 minutes Tuesday, Feb. 11, as the two sides kicked off conversations on a performance audit of the legislative branch, which DiZoglio has sought since winning office two years ago.
The tone in the fourth-floor conference room was frosty, and at times contentious, as senators launched volleys of questions toward the audit staff, including Deputy Auditor Michael Leung-Tat and Executive Deputy Auditor Stephen Lisauskas. Chaired by Sen. Cindy Friedman of Arlington, the subcommittee includes Sens. William Brownsberger, Joanne Comerford and Paul Feeney.
Senators asked for more information around the scope of the current audit being attempted by DiZoglio’s office, potential conflicts of interest raised by DiZoglio’s recent work as a senator and clarification about the types of documents her staff was seeking. The senators also probed whether audit staff would rule out any subject matter flagged as constitutionally problematic.
Stepped up effort
DiZoglio on Monday stepped up her effort to have Attorney General Andrea Campbell take up her case and push enforcement of the voter-approved audit law in the courts.
Senators seemed to take umbrage at DiZoglio’s contention that they are “breaking the law” by being slow to comply with her office’s fast-paced deadlines. DiZoglio initially gave the branch 72 hours to turn over a slew of documents in early January before the entrance meeting had been scheduled.
The Senate subcommittee spent the first part of the lengthy meeting trying to nail down the exact scope of the current audit, which seemed to have been pared down over the last month.
DiZoglio originally said, in a Jan. 3 letter to branch leaders, that the probe “will cover all of the topics we were unable to fully review in our previous audit.” She referenced an October 2024 report, which her office wrote before voters passed the new audit law, identifying five areas where auditors could not draw definitive conclusions.
Those topics were: Senate and House internal budget balances that are rolled over to the next fiscal year; how “policies and procedures are being equitably applied to all members and staff”; compliance with internal rules on nondisclosure agreements, which the Senate has said have not been used in recent years; how lawmakers are “ensuring an equitable mode of making laws”; and the fates of bills that a majority of lawmakers sign onto as cosponsors.
Friedman seesk focus
An agenda for Tuesday’s meeting indicated the auditor’s office has since decided to focus on just some of those topics — internal financial data, severance agreements, and contracting and procurement procedures. That could avoid at least two subjects that dealt with the legislative process and have raised constitutional concerns. The scope is “subject to modification and change and adjustment,” Leung-Tat added.
“We’re just trying to get the scope of the audit and what you’re asking for,” Friedman said, inquiring whether other subject matter could be added in.
“I don’t think it’s appropriate to talk about sort of prospective audits,” Leung-Tat replied.
Brownsberger asked if the auditor’s staff was “putting any boundaries on your future activities” or if there could be a “completely different focus” in a separate audit probe months or years from now.
“I don’t know what the future holds, of course,” Leung-Tat said.
“But the answer is, God knows what?” Brownsberger said.
“No, the answer is not ‘God knows what?’ I think the answer is that in the future, we’ll address those issues at a time that’s appropriate,” Leung-Tat responded.
“The auditor will decide. Got it. Thank you,” Brownsberger said, referring to DiZoglio, who served in the Senate from 2019 to 2023 and was often at odds with branch leadership.
Sharp questions from DiTullio
Some of the sharpest questioning came not from lawmakers but from Senate Counsel James DiTullio of Arlington, who told the audit staff that the Senate side of the table felt “whiplash” between the scope DiZoglio defined in her Jan. 3 letter and the more narrow list of topics that her staff was emphasizing in the meeting.
“And today you’re saying, ‘Never mind,'” DiTullio said. He later contended that copies of DiZoglio’s letter were not “worth the paper they’re printed on.”
DiZoglio’s staff repeated that the new, narrower list of three topics was now the subject of the audit, and they did not want to speculate about future investigations.
“No, I think we’re asking you to explain what your boss meant in this letter,” DiTullio replied, referring to DiZoglio but not naming her.
Leung-Tat, who is DiZoglio’s general counsel, said he thought the conversation was “going around in circles.”
“We’re going in a straight line,” Brownsberger countered.
Senators also questioned the retrospective nature of the audit, which DiZoglio’s office has expanded from an initial range of calendar years 2021 and 2022 to now cover fiscal 2021 through fiscal 2024, a period entirely prior to the passage of the new audit law.
At one point, DiTullio asked Leung-Tat to “cite a case” to support his position.
The auditor’s lawyer started to answer before saying, “I’m not going to preview our — and if this does go to litigation, I’m not — we disagree with your position that the law is not applicable.”
Litigation? Time out
Feeney blew the whistle for a timeout when the word “litigation” hit the floor.
“We’re in an entrance meeting, talking about the audit, and how we can cooperate and comply. And you’re jumping to potential lawsuits,” Feeney said. “We’re trying to lay everything on the table so we can comply and get to the right place. And it seems, based on that statement you just made, and statements made in the public, that there really isn’t cooperation to actually do this, right? I mean, are we preparing for litigation or are we trying to do an audit?”
Lawmakers have repeatedly voiced concern that DiZoglio’s recent employment as a senator, and past work as a state representative and House aide, could prevent her from objectively auditing the Legislature. Audits follow U.S. Government Accountability Office’s Generally Accepted Government Auditing Standards (GAGAS).
Lisauskas said that DiZoglio has been “cleared” by the U.S. Government Accountability Office, which sets industry-standard government auditing guidelines.
“We’ve already had the conversations with regard to the auditor and her — the fact that she was formerly a state legislator has already been discussed with the Government Accountability Office and cleared,” said Lisauskas.
Ethical clearance sought
Feeney and Friedman asked for a copy of that ethical clearance, but it was not clear if such a communication yet existed in written form. Leung-Tat said the clearance came out of “conversations” held by unnamed members of the auditor’s office.
At the end of the 90-minute barrage, Lisauskas acknowledged to reporters that the meeting had sometimes been testy.
“This is a new process, and this is a new discussion both for them and for us. And so I think there’s naturally going to be exploring a variety of things that have not been explored before,” Lisauskas said after the meeting. “So I think it was a good discussion, it was a productive discussion. It certainly got heated, at times. But value the opportunity to have that discussion with the Senate and look forward to future meetings and discussions.”
Friedman told reporters after the meeting that senators would report back to the Senate and then determine “next steps.” Asked whether that meant senators would discuss the matter in a private caucus, Friedman said, “we’ll let you know.”
The deputy auditors, whose office has been pressing lawmakers to give timely responses, would not commit to a timeline for answering the Senate’s queries.
And there was no immediate response when Feeney asked whether Tuesday’s conversation-starter would keep DiZoglio from alleging the Senate was noncompliant.
“I think we have to have some internal conversations,” Leung-Tat said.
This news summary by Sam Doran of State House News Service was published Wednesday, Feb. 12, 2025.
